The Monster Awakes.
It has been quiet on the Mythconception front for some time, but he is starting up again taking pot shots at other forums and their members. We must be in for another round of vitriol.
In a group of posts earlier this week one member at Mythconception headquarters took a shot at Hallam. The thread was closed after four or five posts then, it disappeared.
In the last couple of days Mythconception took a shot at Rupert of Oz about a post on PAP regarding the use of oyster shells in trickling bio filters. It was a difference of opinion, not much in it, except at the end Mythconception says this.
Rupert generally knows his stuff but he is, to some extent, constrained by the company he keeps. He could discuss his misapprehensions on this forum but he probably feels safer in environments where people know less…..and have less overall experience…..than he does. He may also sense that coming over here might be frowned upon by his patrons on other forums.
He , Mythconception, has obviously chosen to omit that Rupert of Oz has been banned from Mythconception HQ. Rupert of Oz disagreed once too often with the headmaster and was banned for life.
And the really funny bit, he probably feels safer in environments where people know less. It must be really hard and a great burden to carry, knowing everything Mythconception? Just how do you manage?
In this lengthy “he says, I say” post by Mythconception, he goes to great length to analyse every little detail and in a second “he says, I say” post he writes this,
Regardless of the design/type, nitrification will happen most effectively in a bio-filter where the sedimentary and suspended solids loading is minimised.
This is a simple, demonstrable and unequivocal fact (and one which is supported by the overwhelming body of scientific evidence)…..and the failure to acknowledge that is at the heart of the limited productivity and resilience applicable to basic flood and drain systems.
Once again the Mythconception person is making broad sweeping statements. All the scientific evidence is on his side. He knows just about everything and, it would appear that every flood and drain system has limited productivity and resilience. Says which scientist? Who? Himself?
We have pointed this out before, he makes claims and provides no evidence. His claims are, in every case designed to discredit others.
It would appear that this tactic will elevate him as the one and only true Guru.
“Is it a contradiction to rebuke someone for not providing evidence and not provide any yourself?”
Not so Bane. He is the one making the unsubstantiated claims. How does one provide evidence in response to broadsides of nonsense?. Broad sweeping statements are the habit of Mythconception in his desire to be seen as a “scientific person”
“Personally, it is disappointing to see this site continue on its current path of destruction.”
This site only ever responds to outbursts from Mythconception. If Mythconception went about his own business and did not take personal shots at others or other forums, and denigrate other people’s aquaponic systems, this site would be left with nothing to say. Take notice, there are long periods on inactivity on this site. This site only awakens when Mythconception begins denigrating others.
Poor Mythconception, he just cannot get off his bandwagon of filters, even though all other forums openly advocate using additional filters where necessary or desired.
Your long dissertation on filtering and bio filters is interesting, but there is nothing new or ground breaking. I am sure that no one would disagree with the technical information you have presented in your post.
mythponics
June 21, 2011 at 12:20 pm
“Regardless of the design/type, nitrification will happen most effectively in a bio-filter where the sedimentary and suspended solids loading is minimised”
There is nothing wrong or broad about the statement above from Gary.
Unfortunately, the retort from the owner of this site does not demonstrate how the statement is incorrect and only serves to confuse those looking for accurate information and therefore is counterproductive to the aim of this site “Undoing the Myths”. Is it a contradiction to rebuke someone for not providing evidence and not provide any yourself? I believe this site owner thinks too highly of his word play than providing a well supported argument and strong debate. This alone will continue to restrict his exposure and the resulting influence he may hope to achieve.
Do you think the owner of this site truly has the “best interests of aquaponics” and “undoing the myths” in mind?
The previous post on this site suggested the site owner had made peace with whatever personal affront or grievance with Gary. Personally, it is disappointing to see this site continue on its current path of destruction.
The main point to take from this is, nitrification in a filter, designed specifically for the conversion of ammonia (excreted by fish) to nitrate (easily taken up by plants) is reduced by the presents of excessive organics (fish poop and uneaten feed) or solids if you like. Perhaps a search on “organic carbon in bio filters” will net some useful references.
Your understanding of organic carbon is not a prerequisite. Think of it like good guys and bad guys. The bad guys only eat organics, the good guys only in things that are not organic. This makes the good guys food to the bad guys.
This filter capacity reduction is not only from the simple presence of the organics taking up space the nitrifying bacteria need to colonize on the media present (clogging), but also a result of the heterotrophic bacteria populations those organic solids will encourage. These bacteria will out compete your nitrifying bacteria for space and oxygen, they will also out compete your fish for oxygen in large enough numbers. Keep in mind the heterotrophs eat nitrifiers. Some simple searches about “heterotrophs and nitrifying biofilters” will provide some relative reading.
Outside of what can be read in a multitude of papers, my personal experience in both commercial and backyard applications of biofilters shows when you slip over to the “dark side” of filtration, problems are inevitable. The general system degradation may not be evident to the novice and they may not show up for quite a while, so it is easy to be misled to thinking adequate filtration is not needed.
A system I know of only removes solids that are greater than 100micron (basically the big stuff), before a biofilter that has 150 liters of kaldnes. That kaldnes is capable of handling 1.5kg of feed per day. It struggles with half of that per day, go figure. But that is not all, the system also has 2 cubic meters of 10 to 20mm gravel in a 6 meter growbed and a 6 meter raft, so you would think it can handle quite a load. Not so, it only works as it should when I remove solids down to 20micron though that takes a 200 micron filter… bit of an odd one but related to flow rates and pipe velocities…. fun fun fun.
In answer to Karls very good question, which I think really brings this topic home;
You DO NOT NEED filtration prior to your bio filter, be it a grow bed or specifically designed filter, however YOU MUST make allowance in the size for the grow beds/filters reduced capacity and ensure you HAVE THE OXYGEN carrying capacity to provide all of the organisms adequate support essential to your production goals.
In other words, if you or your system does not benefit from heterotrophs (eg biofloc), try to avoid providing an ideal environment for them (eg solids) and concentrate your resources on those that do benefit the growth (protein) you are chasing.
Adrian want to hook us up with a winsig comment editor? Or do you prefer I take the piss in monochrome?
Bane
June 14, 2011 at 7:48 pm
This is also amusing
“Regardless of the design/type, nitrification will happen most effectively in a bio-filter where the sedimentary and suspended solids loading is minimised”.
By this we must conclude that the bio filter must be very clean of solids in order to work. Do we need to have a filter before the filter? Maybe even a filter before the filter before the filter?
Karl
June 3, 2011 at 3:29 pm